The Classic Storm Combo Primer, Part 1

This thread is for discussion of the article: The Classic Storm Combo Primer, Part 1

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You've laid out an admirable decklist, and the argument for it - nice job! I'm convinced on the topic of Serum Visions, at least for this build, although I could believe that there are builds where the 10-card opening hand, plus Duress protection, would offset the library clearing potential, and would result in more turn 2 wins. Possibly Classic doesn't have the power density to make that a reality?

I have been trying to decide if Crystal Vein is just a crutch for me. I'll need to go back and test, and see how many times the extra 1 wasn't really needed. I found it handy for Thresh at times.

The card I like the least, without eggs, is Vamp, just because it really doesn't interact with anything mid-combo other than Visions. I haven't tested this build, but it seems like building in anti-hate cards maindeck, plus the possibility of flipping Vamp (+1 Storm but effectively not a tutor at that point), would decrease some of your explosive power. That said, I've played one Vamp, and would consider more, but I'm not sure I could bring myself to play all 4. (On the other hand, at least Vamp shuffles for Brainstorm.)

The other thing that concerns me about the eggless build is that it's a lot tougher to play a maindeck Desire, rather than aiming for LED+Wish as your main plan. Particularly if you aim for turn 2/3, you are going to have to use at least one land to start a ritual, and likely two, leaving you with U from a possible third land, and maybe U from a Mox. (That said, I haven't tested it, and will need to do so before I can really say for sure. It could be I'm not playing tight enough or taking the right risks, and again using the eggs as a crutch.)

I like the 11 land manabase, as I was finding 8 plus 4 mox resulted in too many mulligans of otherwise winning hands.

All in all, great article, and plenty to think about.
    

Edited by lathspel - 13 Mar 2007 at 5:31pm

Lath-

Good points, definitely, on Vamp. Thanks for well-thought-out posts.

Even in egg-filled builds, LED into Desire was always Plan A. My argument is just that it seems to place a higher dependency on LED now, since you realistically can't execute any other plan at all (in the turn 2-3 timeframe) if Plan A doesn't happen. It's the one piece of the deck that isn't 8-way redundant.

OTOH, 4 Vamp help answer redundancy problems. So testing seems to be in order for me.

I have to start with a congratulations to DJ. This was a very interesting and entertaining article to read. I love the way that you break it down to explain each part properly along with the averages. I have done the exact same thing with several decks to try to determine the # of a particular type of spell that I should play and the likelyhood of an opening hand. Though I have never played storm in my life, I have been beat by it enough to know its power. I am very excited to read the upcomming part 2 of this article and can't wait to get some heated debate going =D

Well I got bored yesterday and proxied up this deck to try it out and give you guys some feedback on it. What I have found in my >20 games is that I rarly win before T4. IF its not T4 then I win T2 off a 5 card desire with intense hits on them. I have founf that in order to make UU is the main reason I have problems with this list. After reading it again I was trying to go the rout of desire or die, forgetting all about the possibility of a warrens win with 8-10 tokens. Though I have never played a desires deck in my life I think that I have enough skill at this game to teach myself and give some good feedback on this list. I have found that LED is great, but its not so hot w/o wish or tutor, as well as Infernal tutor seeming almost worthless w/o LED. I have yet to pull a T1 win out of the deck, but I have gotten about 5+ T2's and the rest were me learning how to play this deck. I have also found that I love the light land base, but it has hindered me slightly. Mox kills one of the cards that sometimes would be needed in a non-goldfish game. I also found that a few times the draws can be HORRID. My bad shuffling perhaps, but I have nailed the 4 lands and accel hands several times as well as the no land/no mox hands. With me testing more over my spring break I'll try to give you guys some feedback based on what I have learned. But as of now it is, I am noob with the deck and unless you are awesome at magic, stick with a simpler list =D

Edited by Burning_Lotus - 16 Mar 2007 at 9:22am

<<<There is almost no way to pull a turn 1 win out of this deck.  It's basically impossible unless you have the lone sins of the past in your hand.>>>

Originally posted by dangerlinto Turn 1 wins -   I think the point being that if you are going to be asking for double Dark Ritual or double LED, you could in fact run practically any other combo and get a much more assured turn 1 victory - because even with the god hands you listed, it isn't a sure thing.

True, but there's no Leyline of the Void for storm decks.

That's really it in a nutshell.  Like I've said before, it's capable of a turn one win, but it's not built for one, much like most other combo decks in the format.  It excels because, in addition to being able to pull one off, it can otherwise set up for a win jsut as well or better than the other combo decks in the format, while dodging most of the current combo (read: graveyard) hate and being more resiliant to control.

I'm glad things are working smoother for you.  =)

Originally posted by Burning_Lotus One other thing that I never did think about. What about Simain Spirit Guide (spelling???) The discard add a R guy from PC. That might not be enough acell, but would sure seem to be about as good as chrome mox and let you keep a card. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems worth a look to me at least.

I think the verdict was that it doesn't help storm, therefore out, but I might be misremembering.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  While it is acceleration, the fact that it doesn't help out Storm is part of the equation.  Another important part is that it isn't a permanent mana source, which is huge, even at the expense of a card in hand.  Lastly, red is the last color you typically are hurting for in that slot.  Black is far-and-away the most important color to have access to, followed next by blue in most cases.