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The Starting Line: Iona Oath |
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dangerlinto 
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 3994 |
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 Topic: The Starting Line: Iona OathPosted: 24 Oct 2009 at 8:00pm |
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This thread is for discussion of the article The Starting Line: Iona Oath
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TheGoldenVoid
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Joined: 26 May 2009 Location: Scotland Online Status: Offline Posts: 459 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 7:52am |
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Article quote: "No matter what order those two creatures come into play, they will deal lethal damage in two turn."
Isn't two turns = 18 damage?
Anyway, general comment: Are you sure that using Iona would actually make a better deck than the old ones you describe? For one thing, she is your only creature, so your subsequent Oath triggers are useless. Why no second critter?
Secondly, she is slow (no Haste and 7 damage per turn = 4 turn kill compared to 2 turns with Hellkite Overlord). Also, you can't prevent all removal by naming one colour so you can still lose her easier than I'd feel happy with. At least with the Hellkites they need to remove both. Finally, I personally feel that killing two turns quicker is more important than shutting out one colour.
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Cownose
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looks like a cat to me... Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 638 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 8:04am |
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18 Damage is lethal on turn 4 90% of the time I would say.
Have you considered a second iona as an insurance policy in case the first gets removed/you draw it? Oath is a "may" trigger so you dont have to trigger it if you have one out already
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Mongooses!!!!!
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dangerlinto
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 3994 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 8:32am |
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You'd be surprised how often you can cut the opponent off with Iona. In the cases where there are two colours of important removal, you can just name either blue - thus ensuring every one of your counterspells will resolve, or name white, which will ensure Iona stays in the game. If your IOna goes to the graveyard, no problem. Let Oath trigger again and Gaea's Blessing will shuffle up your GY into your library, and next turn you can Oath it right back up. If you want to go for double hellkite, you can, but that just means you are more susceptible to 8x RFG effects.
Shutting down one whole color is absolutely killer. Make no mistake about it.
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dangerlinto
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 8:33am |
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Brainstorm is pretty good at handling that. You can tutor one up or research up another set of creatures. You have a lot of outs to a drawn Iona. You could run two, but the problem is it removes the possibilty of research for something. If you have one Iona out, you can't research in, say, painter, because you now have a 50/50 chance of double Iona - which is to say no Iona - it's Legendary.
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Cownose
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 9:02am |
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If the goal is killing quickly with less protection, I think Cognivore might be a better choice over hellkite, he kills for sure on the turn after you oath, hellikite will probably kill that turn, but rarely he will not.
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Mongooses!!!!!
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SICKSICKSICK
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But otherwise healthy Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 312 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 9:56am |
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Cognivore is pretty bad with Gaea's Blessing.
With the hellkite plan you play 2 so you do 24 damage.
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TheGoldenVoid
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 10:52am |
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Shame the red Akroma doesn't have haste; the two Akroma's would have been a pretty cool combination, and somewhat protected. Edited by TheGoldenVoid - 26 Oct 2009 at 10:56am |
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Cownose
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 11:08am |
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The cognivore deck runs krosan reclamation instead of blessing, which also allows you to tutor for 2 cards once you dump your whole library w/ the second activation
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Mongooses!!!!!
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menace13
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Oh, Mr. Wilson! Joined: 08 May 2009 Location: nyc Online Status: Offline Posts: 861 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 12:37pm |
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Cognivore does not trample or fly so that little 1/1 spirit token will block. Akroma has seen play in oath decks tho white more so than red.
I like the platinum oath builds as that enables you to play pact of negation and laugh.
Oath is a versatile list that has over its course ran inkwell, empyricall angel,blazing achron,simic skyswallower,darksteel col,and razia.
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SICKSICKSICK
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But otherwise healthy Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 312 |
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 1:58pm |
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Cognivore flies.
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Cownose
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 1:59pm |
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In all fairness, I was not suggesting the cognivore kill as a serious solution, just as an idea. I will likely not be swinging with a cognivore anytime soon
 . Sorry for derailing the thread, Danger
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Mongooses!!!!!
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dangerlinto
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Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 2:55pm |
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Not at all
It's called the starting line b/c it is meant to spur discussion. If it was ment to be the be all and end all of decklists, I'd call it The Finish Line.
I wouldn't even bother with a reclamation deck without Will.
When Will comes out, there will have to be a whole new series of Startning Lines, though.
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max115
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Joined: 25 Aug 2009 Location: UK(Kent) Online Status: Offline Posts: 14 |
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Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 4:25am |
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I like the deck, and was thinking, if you ran painter's servant wouldn't running prehaps a singleton grindstone as a backup kill if Iona and gets exiled?
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dangerlinto
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Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 5:32am |
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You know that's funny - I thought the same thing last night. Definitely worth a shot
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TheGoldenVoid
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Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 6:28am |
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I'm still not seeing why you wouldn't run 2 fatties here, with one being Iona? This solves the fatty accidently in hand issue, and allows a faster kill.
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dangerlinto
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Posted: 27 Oct 2009 at 7:46am |
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Because if I'm going to run 2 fatties for a fast kill, I'm not running Iona.
Think. 50% of the time, you'd get Fatty #1 then Iona. That's not a heck of a lot faster, since Iona hasn't got haste. You only gain 1 extra that way. (7, 7, 14 vs 0, 7, 7, 7). You are simply asking for a different configuration of Oath, which is faster but more fragile. |
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40z
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Joined: 07 Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Online Status: Offline Posts: 54 |
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Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 6:46pm |
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Nice article Danger!
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Emay
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Posted: 08 Nov 2009 at 1:08pm |
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The thing I don't like about Iona is that, even if you cut off an opponent from playing every spell in their deck, you could lose. Your 'normal' undisrupted gameplan is turn 1 tutor, turn 2 oath, turn 3 iona. If your opponent went first (or even second), aggro decks could still potentially outrace you just with what they have on-board (especially if they run vial or lackey).
Yeah I know you can lotus petal into turn 1 oath, and you're running 4x daze/force of will, but still...does iona really protect you better than empyrial archangel, who can nullify threats already on the board? Edited by Emay - 08 Nov 2009 at 1:12pm |
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dangerlinto
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Posted: 08 Nov 2009 at 1:48pm |
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That pretty much holds true whether you are running Iona or not, with the exception of double Hellkite. But then if you are playing double Hellkite, you are much more susceptible to other types of decks - particularly decks that use dures & smallpox/edict. And that's why you run other creatures (and Research & Development) in the board. If you're facing off against aggro, you can potentially win even if they get their best draw Game 1
Game 2, they're doing you the favour of allowing you to not have to even see a Forbidden Orchard, and feel free to dump whatever creatures you like into your library.
I'm pretty happy facing off against Aggro with ANY oath deck. So I'd rather tailor it to win against decks I'm NOT happy to face.
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Emay
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Posted: 09 Nov 2009 at 7:51am |
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What decks are you unhappy to face? Dredge can still get ichorids and narcomoebas if you shut down dread return, and given that Iona doesn't usually win until turn 7, it seems likely that you'll lose that race. Iona also technically doesn't stop helm/leyline or painter's grindstone although I guess shutting off their countermagic and having plenty of your own amounts to the same thing.
I mean, I really like your oath build, I'm just not convinced that Iona is the best win con. I keep thinking that Progenitus + Empyrial archangel wins a turn faster, can't be outraced, and might be even more difficult to answer.
Maybe you could explain to me which matchups Iona is superior in, and why?
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dangerlinto
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Posted: 09 Nov 2009 at 8:59am |
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Hmm? It's very easy to smash face against Archangel. You've no real guarantee of keeping it around. Progenitus and Archangel are very good against RFTG effects, but of course lose to edict effects in that it give them a chance to simply attack through for two turns (one in the case of Progenitus (since it gets shuffled back in immediately and doesn't have to wait for a Blessing activation, which is good). The other answer which is very good against them both is Hibernation and considering neither of them offers protection or even has haste, seems like a bad duo to me. Iona and Progenitus seems much better, accomplishes the same win time (3 turns) and offers way more protection.
Combo. Pick one, any one, and then cut off one of it colors and see how well it operates. Oath has good control measures, but you often need to use them to protect your oath or your creatures. Double Hellkite is the only configuration fast enough, I think, to race any combo deck in the format. Progentus and Archangel aren't going to help you at all against combo, and their combo is faster than your combo. Storm Combo is your worst enemy, but is totally going to scoop to an Iona naming Black or Blue (depending on the deck). The speed of the kill at that point is moot, but then the speed of the kill is moot vs most decks once you have Iona out. Edited by dangerlinto - 09 Nov 2009 at 9:02am |
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Emay
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Posted: 19 Nov 2009 at 1:19pm |
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I've mulled it over, and played a few proxied games...consider me sold on your list (not that it should matter to you). The research tech is awesome. |
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cdiegor
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Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 8:15am |
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"As you can see, he's added the Time Vault/Voltaic Key combo to a
reclamation based Oath, which means he'll get Iona in play (naming blue
almost all the time), reclaim the appropriate cards (Yawgmoth's Will),
play the combo, play Timetwister, and then proceed to take infinite
turns."
There's something wrong with naming blue with Iona and playing Timetwister against an attentive opponent. |
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dangerlinto
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 3994 |
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Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 8:39am |
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Iona, Shield of Emeria   Legendary Creature — Angel Flying As Iona, Shield of Emeria enters the battlefield, choose a color. Your opponents can't cast spells of the chosen color. An attentive opponent would notice it was only him/herself who couldn't play timetwister. Iona is a one-sided wrecking crew of a card |
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